To become timeless, you must first look dated
Minimalism isn’t the secret to timeless design; distinction is. In this clip from You’re Not the Audience, Parliament Creative Director Calvin Ross Carl argues that to become timeless, a brand first has to look distinctive enough to become dated. He points to Dieter Rams’ work, which stood out because nothing else looked like it, alongside the text-packed Dr. Bronner’s label, The Designers Republic’s work for Wipeout, and black metal logos, and explains why timelessness is really an innovation challenge that should feel scary. It’s from the You’re Not the Audience episode on timelessness, What the F*ck Is Timelessness?.
Watch the full episode
Outline
Summary
Calvin Ross Carl argues that minimalism and less-is-more design aren’t the answer to timelessness. Designs need to be durable and replicate well, but the real answer is distinction. That leads to his central idea: to become timeless, a brand has to look distinctive enough to become dated first.
Dieter Rams is his first example. Designers love his minimalism, but it was timeless because it was so distinct in its category and era. Dr. Bronner’s proves the point from the opposite direction: its labels are packed with text and spiritual writing, yet the consistent, unmistakable system makes it feel timeless.
He extends the idea to The Designers Republic’s work for Wipeout and to black metal logos like Darkthrone’s, which were deliberately unreadable to separate the genre from pop music. Creating that kind of distinction is risky, he says, because timelessness is really an innovation challenge, and innovation can’t be measured in advance.
Highlights
Minimalism alone doesn’t make a design timeless.
To become timeless, a brand must be distinctive enough to look dated first.
Dieter Rams’ work lasted because nothing else looked like it.
Dr. Bronner’s and black metal logos show maximalist routes to timelessness.
Innovation and timelessness overlap more than they oppose each other.
Key insights
Distinction is the real driver
Rams’ minimalism endured not because it was minimal but because it was unlike anything else in its category at the time.
Maximalism can be timeless too
Dr. Bronner’s breaks every minimalist rule, but its consistency and uniqueness make it some of the best branding ever, in Calvin’s view.
Stand apart from your category
Black metal’s unreadable logos were a deliberate break from pop music. Timeless brands think in ways their category isn’t thinking.
Timelessness should feel scary
Because it’s an innovation challenge with no past data to measure against, the risk clients feel is a sign they’re on the right track.
Detailed analysis
The clip inverts a common assumption. Many teams pursue timelessness by avoiding anything that could age, but Calvin argues that the designs we now call timeless were bold, even strange, when they appeared. Their distinctiveness is what made them memorable enough to last.
That reframing links timelessness to innovation. Both require stepping away from the category, accepting risk, and building confidence without proof, which is why the clip connects the idea to Parliament’s old motto about being brave and standing apart.
Conclusion
Playing it safe won’t make a brand timeless. Calvin’s case is that brands have to be distinct enough to risk looking dated, because that same distinction is what lets them endure.
Transcript
I think the thing to remember about that is that minimalism, austere design, less is more, all of those are not necessarily the answer to timelessness. Minimalism is not the answer. It’s really about creating distinction. Distinction is the answer to creating timelessness.
You need things to be durable. You need designs to be durable. You need to make sure they replicate well in various locations. That was why, in the 2000s era, when everything was getting gradients slapped all over it, it was kind of not easily replicable in a lot of situations. So it inherently has to be updated over time and will be adjusted. That’s some old man thinking right there, but it’s just kind of how it worked out.
So if minimalism isn’t the answer, distinction is. That just reminds us that in order to become timeless, you first have to look distinctive enough to become dated. And that is the scary part. I feel like this is a deep shower thought, or a deep stoner thought. To become timeless, you have to look distinctive enough to become dated first.
And I think that is the thing we forget with timeless brands. When we think of Dieter Rams—all designers love Dieter Rams—we forget that his style of minimalism was timeless only because it was so damn distinct and unique in its product category in that era. Nothing else looked like it. It was a freak designed for freaks, and that is why it stood out. When you look at all these products, like his last principle, the most classic: “Good design is as little design as possible.” Less is better. But just the most simple, beautiful things. Nothing else looked like it. It always had these big knobs, which goes into the functional type of timelessness. Great.
So his brand of minimalism works great, but we have to remember that timelessness was not necessarily his focus. It was good design that lasts, but it was so distinct that it had to stand out. It has stood out forever. He hasn’t made these products in decades, and we’re still obsessed with them.
The other one that’s a good example of how minimalism is not the answer: think of Dr. Bronner’s. Incredible. It looks classic, looks like it’s always existed. I mean, it’s existed for a long time. It is absolutely just slammed with text. There are religious writings on it. All this new age, hippie, spiritual, religious stuff all over it. It is packed with every single possible piece of information, and it is so good. Just some of the best branding ever. And it’s always the same. That’s their approach on everything. Let’s see if I can get this image here. It’s a super consistent system. Everything is just packed with information, and there’s nothing else that looks like it. And that’s why it feels timeless.
And this extends to a lot of other worlds too. Think of things we’ve talked about in here, like video games. We’ve talked about Wipeout a lot. I love it. The Designers Republic did that work for Wipeout, the video game. Nothing else looked like it at the time, and that’s why I remember it. I still have the book sitting around somewhere. I don’t know where it went.
But then it’s also applied to larger categories. We’ve talked about metal in here. I love metal, and black metal bands. All those bands have black metal logos that all look like gibberish to people. But this was really deliberate, to establish a distinction from pop music. It was like, we want to be unreadable. It is about being in the know and discovering all this really extreme metal. And so a lot of those original bands, like this one here, Darkthrone, one of the original big, important black metal bands—nothing else looked like it. That was how they created the aesthetic. And now there are a billion bands that have taken that aesthetic forever. And for any of you hardcore black metal people that watch this, all of you: I know Darkthrone wasn’t the first black metal band, but they became kind of critical to it.
So it really has always been about this: to create timelessness, you need to put your neck out and create a distinction that separates you from your whole category. You need to start thinking in a way that your category is not thinking. And that’s the scary part. That’s why clients get really concerned about the high risk of that, the lack of confidence. That lack of confidence happens because—we’ve talked about this before—it’s actually an innovation challenge to become timeless, and innovation can’t be measured, because you can’t measure unknowns in the future. You don’t have past information on it.
And so that’s why timelessness actually should be scary to brands, and that’s good. Our old Parliament motto, “Be brave, stand apart,” is a timelessness challenge. So there’s a really interesting thing where innovation and timelessness are essentially Venn diagrams that overlap. We think of them as opposites, but the only way to create a truly timeless brand is to step up above everyone else in your category.